Curse

Winterclaw · Nov 20, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

The other day I was thinking about how expensive and/or time consuming it would be to keep your heroes equipped. I'm not talking top end crafter stuff or greens, unless you get a crummy green drop or a collector weapon. Then on top of that, you might want to provide one minor rune for every hero you have. If you are only getting or using heroes for one character or only in PvP, that'd be fine. However, if you are getting them for more than one character, that might become a problem. Unless you are farming troll tusks, you aren't exactly getting a lot of collector drops to support multiple heroes across multiple characters without a good bit of farming.

So why not give us a little break and make heroes (and their equipment) account based instead of character based... at least in terms of max level and equipment.

How this helps:
1. If you bring in one non-nf character and get 2-3 heroes to 20, you won't have to worry about leveling them again if you bring in another non-nf character.
2. Reduces costs in case you have to buy a crafter weapon or two (or collectable drops), but doesn't eliminate them.
3. Reduces need to farm collector drops, but doesn't eliminate them.
4. Since you need to equip every hero once, you still have some money/time sink built into the game and if you aren't keeping your warriors to one weapon skill, you'll need to get them several weapons still.
5. It lets the players focus on playing the game instead of having to keep everyone equipped.
6. It makes it easier for people with mainly/only RP characters to pvp. If you want to HB with your tyrian monk, you aren't forced to run around and level and get some weapons for every hero. Sure you can stick to just 3, but if you get tired of going duel monk, duel el you can rotate your heroes without worrying too much that your heroes will be gimped because this Koss only has an 10-17 sword.
7. You don't have to go back and check to see if you forgot to equip every hero for that character because you've done it 4 times already and it's starting to blurr together.
8. "Equiping" heroes you don't use with items you want to keep is equivilant to free storage space to people that have unlocked the extra heroes or have NF (and everyone doesn't). This goes ditto if you save runes and inscriptions for good prices and heroes have a 100% salvage rate.

KoalaMeatPie · Nov 20, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Its been said before - heros are not meant to be "leet", theya re meant to be Customizable henchman to which you give them collector items or whatever drops.

Somebody Close this.

Winterclaw · Nov 20, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Items, even collector or whatever ones, is only one issue I mentioned. Please don't lock this.

KoalaMeatPie · Nov 20, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Just incase you want to edit anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

The other day I was thinking about how expensive and/or time consuming it would be to keep your heroes equipped. I'm not talking top end crafter stuff or greens, unless you get a crummy green drop or a collector weapon. Then on top of that, you might want to provide one minor rune for every hero you have. If you are only getting or using heroes for one character or only in PvP, that'd be fine. However, if you are getting them for more than one character, that might become a problem. Unless you are farming troll tusks, you aren't exactly getting a lot of collector drops to support multiple heroes across multiple characters without a good bit of farming.

So why not give us a little break and make heroes (and their equipment) account based instead of character based... at least in terms of max level and equipment.

How this helps:
1. If you bring in one non-nf character and get 2-3 heroes to 20, you won't have to worry about leveling them again if you bring in another non-nf character.
2. Reduces costs in case you have to buy a crafter weapon or two (or collectable drops), but doesn't eliminate them.
3. Reduces need to farm collector drops, but doesn't eliminate them.
4. Since you need to equip every hero once, you still have some money/time sink built into the game and if you aren't keeping your warriors to one weapon skill, you'll need to get them several weapons still.
5. It lets the players focus on playing the game instead of having to keep everyone equipped.
6. It makes it easier for people with mainly/only RP characters to pvp. If you want to HB with your tyrian monk, you aren't forced to run around and level and get some weapons for every hero. Sure you can stick to just 3, but if you get tired of going duel monk, duel el you can rotate your heroes without worrying too much that your heroes will be gimped because this Koss only has an 10-17 sword.
7. You don't have to go back and check to see if you forgot to equip every hero for that character because you've done it 4 times already and it's starting to blurr together.
8. "Equiping" heroes you don't use with items you want to keep is equivilant to free storage space to people that have unlocked the extra heroes or have NF (and everyone doesn't). This goes ditto if you save runes and inscriptions for good prices and heroes have a 100% salvage rate.

I have many Characters with heros, I share items accross Characters.

1- No - It will disbalance. If you bring your lvl 15 Ele to L.A., then unlock Elona, To which you gain instantly your heros, which are then lvl 20, then go back to Tyria.. It will unbalance the game the same way as a lvl 20 going Ascalon, they are not meant to be there.

2- Um, no. Why reduce Cost because you have heros? That is not fair to the others who do not have Nightfalls, it also rewards the people who decid to grind to get their heros to lvl 20, which is what GW is against, rewards for grinding.

3- As I said, heros are Customizable henchman, if YOU are nto going to use the collector drops on your avatar while going threw a mission, use it for your hero, how many times did you just leave those Mursaat Tokens or jade bracelts lying around? And what about al those whites that drop? Give them to your heros.

4- Share items accross Characters, I give my main's Zodiac bow to Jin while I am on my Dervish, Then i found a White bow or I can go to a collector or crafter using the money i took from the drops I found while in a mission or totherwise.

5- Same thing as above. No, it doesn't once you have your hero equipped its done, thats it, sure you may tweak, But Heroos are infact, Apart of the game, And if it is taking that much effort to "keep everybody equipped" Then you need to review what you are doing. then take a break, because IT DOESN'T take that much effort to keep everybody equipped. There must be seomthing wrong with you.

6- What? Its called a PvP character, just create weapons be pressing J then equipe them to your hero.

7- So what? You have 3 heros on Per Character, last i herd you can only play one Character at a time, how hard is it to Press I then click 3 different boxes to see if your hero is equipped or not? Thats a retorical question, it takes no effort.

Or if you are shareing items like I am, before leaving just stash your items in your storage.

8- What? Alright, you just included that as bullshit to help your argument. DO NOT go telling me that you have every single slot filled up and that you have 16 Right ahnd items and 16 offhand items that you want to keep and that you are not using.

Why would you want to keep a Weapon or offhand that you are not using? Sell it. Saving it for another character? Give it to him.

Wait a Second? Did you just say it was hard to equipe all your heros? Now you are using an Argumant saying that You can equipe heros and use them as storage and that problem is so huge it effects the people that do not have NF?

Then Why the hell are you compleaining that its hard to equipe your heros?

Oh with "Proper" items? they are Customizable henchman, not "leet" players.

DO NOT go telling me that BS.

Somebody Close this thread.

broodijzer · Nov 20, 2006, 07:39 AM // 07:39

/signed
just make hero lvl= character lvl for the non lvl 20 chars
after lvling and equipping all 15 heroes to lvl 20 on my main, I don't even want to bring a new char to Elona, because I have to start all over :/

MerLock · Nov 20, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodijzer

/signed
just make hero lvl= character lvl for the non lvl 20 chars
after lvling and equipping all 15 heroes to lvl 20 on my main, I don't even want to bring a new char to Elona, because I have to start all over :/

Agreed. Account based would be the bomb! Also add in an easier way to form grps would be nice. Especially for quests.

MithranArkanere · Nov 20, 2006, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Jup... heroes should be given with the same level as your character, instead with a fixed starting level.

If you take Jin with level 5, you get a level 5 Jin instead of 11.

But NOT account based. Most of them are part of the history plot. That would be like running your characters with your other characters... that's... well... that should not be done.

Winterclaw · Nov 20, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Mithran. I'm thinking account based in terms of starting level (if you bring someone over to nightfall) and equipment. You should still have to unlock them all for each character.

MithranArkanere · Nov 20, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Nope. You make character in Prophecies, you get him at level 15 to elona, and get Heroes at level 20?

Nope. I would agree with the same level as you, but never more than you.

TadaceAce · Nov 20, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoalaMeatPie

That is not fair to the others who do not have Nightfalls, it also rewards the people who decid to grind to get their heros to lvl 20, which is what GW is against, rewards for grinding.

So let me get this straight, you're for people having to lvl new heroes for every character, but you're anti grind?

Winterclaw · Nov 20, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Nope. You make character in Prophecies, you get him at level 15 to elona, and get Heroes at level 20?

Nope. I would agree with the same level as you, but never more than you.

If you are 15, then you should have the heroes at their closest level too you. In the case of some, they start out at level 15-18 or so, so if you rush ahead with a lower level PC and get to them, you'd still get them at 18 anyways. But they wouldn't be max for that character. If you bring a 20 over, they'll be max if they hit 20 with another PC of yours before.

Dougal Kronik · Nov 20, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

/not signed

Keep the Heroes character based.

My characters have different professions, therefore I want their associated Heroes to hjave different skills, attributes and equipment.

They'll all progress to where I want them in the regular course of gameplay.

Infinity^ · Nov 20, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

/not signed

So I unlock all the heros with my level 20 char and get them all maxed out. Then I start a new character and get max heros which imbalance the start of the game?

The only way you could counter that would be to have the levels character specific and armour/weapons account based. But then I might have a level 20 Koss with lots of superior runes on, log onto a newbie char where Koss is level 2 and the runes means he has no heath.

Character based is better in terms of the above scenario and in terms of the story. Anet probably did think about this y'know.

I Brother Bloood I · Nov 20, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Been through this before and i bet u can guess what the answer was.....

Carth` · Nov 20, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Wow another thread on this.

I vote for making hero level and weapon/offhand stats based on your own level. That way your level 20 character has a level 20 hero with max armour and max dmg weapon, and your level 5 character has a level 5 hero with something like 30 armour and non-max weapon.

This way you don't have to mess around with the tedious and frustrating micro-management of heroes that is stopping me from playing Nightfall.

I also vote to make their skills account based. I hate having to set up all the heroes for all my characters separately. Yes I can load and save builds, but that means my build list is cluttered with things like "Koss" and "Dunkoro". Damn, I wish they were just henchmen so I didn't have to care.

I'm not bothered at all about the costs of setting up all your heroes, it's the effort. Suddenly maintaining 1 PvE character becomes maintaining 10 PvE characters. I only have 4 PvE characters, and this turns into 40. No wonder I don't want to play PvE any more.

Don't say "oh but your heroes don't have to have the best stuff", I know that. I don't give them the best stuff, I give them whatever crap I find on the ground, but it still means making the effort to sort their skills, sort their attributes, sort their runes, sort their weapons. And level them up! Argh!

thelastunicorn · Nov 20, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoalaMeatPie

Just incase you want to edit anything.

I have many Characters with heros, I share items accross Characters.

1- No - It will disbalance. If you bring your lvl 15 Ele to L.A., then unlock Elona, To which you gain instantly your heros, which are then lvl 20, then go back to Tyria.. It will unbalance the game the same way as a lvl 20 going Ascalon, they are not meant to be there.

2- Um, no. Why reduce Cost because you have heros? That is not fair to the others who do not have Nightfalls, it also rewards the people who decid to grind to get their heros to lvl 20, which is what GW is against, rewards for grinding.

3- As I said, heros are Customizable henchman, if YOU are nto going to use the collector drops on your avatar while going threw a mission, use it for your hero, how many times did you just leave those Mursaat Tokens or jade bracelts lying around? And what about al those whites that drop? Give them to your heros.

4- Share items accross Characters, I give my main's Zodiac bow to Jin while I am on my Dervish, Then i found a White bow or I can go to a collector or crafter using the money i took from the drops I found while in a mission or totherwise.

5- Same thing as above. No, it doesn't once you have your hero equipped its done, thats it, sure you may tweak, But Heroos are infact, Apart of the game, And if it is taking that much effort to "keep everybody equipped" Then you need to review what you are doing. then take a break, because IT DOESN'T take that much effort to keep everybody equipped. There must be seomthing wrong with you.

6- What? Its called a PvP character, just create weapons be pressing J then equipe them to your hero.

7- So what? You have 3 heros on Per Character, last i herd you can only play one Character at a time, how hard is it to Press I then click 3 different boxes to see if your hero is equipped or not? Thats a retorical question, it takes no effort.

Or if you are shareing items like I am, before leaving just stash your items in your storage.

8- What? Alright, you just included that as bullshit to help your argument. DO NOT go telling me that you have every single slot filled up and that you have 16 Right ahnd items and 16 offhand items that you want to keep and that you are not using.

Why would you want to keep a Weapon or offhand that you are not using? Sell it. Saving it for another character? Give it to him.

Wait a Second? Did you just say it was hard to equipe all your heros? Now you are using an Argumant saying that You can equipe heros and use them as storage and that problem is so huge it effects the people that do not have NF?

Then Why the hell are you compleaining that its hard to equipe your heros?

Oh with "Proper" items? they are Customizable henchman, not "leet" players.

DO NOT go telling me that BS.

Somebody Close this thread.

IMO....this is totally unnessisary... you sound more like you're going off on this poor guy just because he thinks one thing and it's not the same as what you think. Perhaps you are right....however....there are other ways of saying things and that does not seem like the right way.

On another note, I think it would be cool if your heros all started out the same lvl as whatever lvl you are when you get the hero......but as far as account based...I am not interested in that, (even though I....like everyone else....am tired of lvling new heros with every new char and other char brought from other chapters).

Winterclaw · Nov 21, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

Wow another thread on this.

I vote for making hero level and weapon/offhand stats based on your own level. That way your level 20 character has a level 20 hero with max armour and max dmg weapon, and your level 5 character has a level 5 hero with something like 30 armour and non-max weapon.

This way you don't have to mess around with the tedious and frustrating micro-management of heroes that is stopping me from playing Nightfall.

That would be acceptable as well, but you'd need an extra feature to 'make' or 'select' which weapon your hero is using.

Quote:

I'm not bothered at all about the costs of setting up all your heroes, it's the effort. Suddenly maintaining 1 PvE character becomes maintaining 10 PvE characters. I only have 4 PvE characters, and this turns into 40. No wonder I don't want to play PvE any more.

For some it's one, for others it's the second, for others still it's both.

Quote:

Don't say "oh but your heroes don't have to have the best stuff", I know that. I don't give them the best stuff, I give them whatever crap I find on the ground, but it still means making the effort to sort their skills, sort their attributes, sort their runes, sort their weapons. And level them up! Argh!

Aye.

Tide to Go · Nov 21, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

I really think you should have thought more about this.

Saying that is like complaigning that there are no lvl 20 henchies on the noob island

*Darcy* · Nov 21, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

/not signed

You're imposing the "grind" and "cost" on yourself. You don't have to bring all your characters to Elona just because you can. I did fine without heroes up to now.

I have 7 characters - two of them from Elona - only one other has gone to Elona so far and she is my warrior who as the oldest gets to do everything first. Maybe someday the other four will get there, maybe they won't. It depends on what the next chapter brings.

Antheus · Nov 21, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

I say remove heroes entirely.

They have caused more complaining and discussions than anything before, even the AI change. It would apear, that just about everyone hates them.

Just remove them already. Then everyone will be hapily stuck with Sister Tai, Alesia and the wonderful PUGs.

* The above is a joke

Heroes are good the way they are for many balance reasons. This includes the way they are equipped, leveled and unlocked. But they are still new, and they overwhealm the actual work needed to keep them up.

Nobody is forcing anyone to level up their heroes, you don't even need to use them. They don't need good or perfect equipment. Just like no player needs those.

But if you choose to obtain them, these are the rules. Just like you have to equip every character, each character gets individual heroes. For example: On my Necro, I won't equip both Whispers and Olias, since I never need two additional necros. But on an elementalist, I'll equip both of hero elementalists, for a very nice triple SF nuking. On a monk, I'll equip all damage dealing heroes, since I need less healing. And so on.

Heros are tools. Use them as such. But they really are fine. Just wait at least another two months till things settle down.